CEO, Unyte Capital Ltd
Jamie is leading the way in the utilization of Hemp to decarbonize the agricultural, construction, and energy sectors in the UK. Having been elected as Chair of the Cannabis Industry Council’s Hemp subgroup, Jamie is working in collaboration with stakeholders and regulators, driving progression and legislative reforms. Unyte Capital Ltd is the largest UK licensed cultivator, with 1700 acres, but is also working on multiple international projects, focused on socioeconomic impact.
- Getting to know the guest speaker
Jamie Bartley introduced himself and said, I’m the CEO of Unyte Capital Ltd. We’re quite a diverse group of companies. But I’ll go directly to companies. So shortly what really got me into this into the industry, I’ve always sort of had a fairly close connection with the agricultural sector. And I’ve actually spent 15 years working in waste management and specified in sort of quite a lot of specialist work around contaminated land remediation. And that was actually my initial touch point with him. About seven or eight years ago, I started looking at the research papers around how we can use hemp as a sustainable tool to clean up contaminated land phytoremediation last term, and I think once I, as soon as I started looking at it, I thought, Wow, this crop can actually do so much more than just cleanups and contaminated land sustainably. And I really started deep diving into sort of research that was already in place around the various aspects and benefits that the crop can have. I suppose I could see to certain degree, the stars aligning between the public global perception of things like micro plastics and decarbonisation, and food security, energy production, and I could absolutely just see it, it was, hence ultimate time to become a solution again, 1000s of years we as humanity as users solution, we were fortunate to live in 100 year blip of prohibition, where it’s not been quite looked on in the same manner. But I think we’re coming out of the back of that now because, ultimately, the need is there from so many different, different sectors. So that was really sort of my initial journey with hemp. And I’ve quite quickly realized there was a lot of talk and not a lot of action around him, both in the UK and internationally. And obviously some of that was prevented by the legislation that was around hemp and cannabis cultivation in different jurisdictions. But we formed the UNITE group at the back end of 2018. And that was really all around focusing on improvement of both human life and planetary life and we see hemp and cannabis as a massive part of that. So within the united group, we’ve got a few different businesses. We’ve got, you know, waste which is located this business specializes in contaminated land waste management, from industrial and construction sectors, and very much focused on service delivery use of those materials or treat everything as a resource, not as a waste and look at trying to minimize the actual disposal of any elements and reduce the burden, imported materials. And then we’ve got united energy which we work in the retrofit energy efficiency sector in the UK. So we have contracts with large energy providers, funding contracts And then we deliver retrofit energy efficiency measures into those existing properties. And we also have a retrofit business as well United retrofit, which again, holds various accreditation that allows us to install those, those energy efficiency measures. And it also gives us a route to market for the hemp insulation products and then green blocks that we’re looking to scale across the UK production wise. So it’s quite a nice synergistic fit there where we’ve got a direct route to market through our other businesses to deploy a lot of the products that we’re going to be manufacturing at scale. And we’ve also got united medical, which is a medical cannabis business and you know, invest, which is FCA brokers as a finance broker, which enables us to offer finance to consumers or farmers for equipment, etc. So and then, you know, I hadn’t, which is obviously the main focus of the conversation today, with the largest UK license holders for industrial hemp cultivation, we’ve got 1700 acres license, and we’ve undertaken three years of growing 240 acres for research. So we’ve invested over a million pounds of self generated revenue across the group into research and development around hemp cultivation. We’ve grown five cultivars at 11 C densities, and really tried to drill down into as much yield data and how the variables of C densities and photo compositions affect the actual yield of the fiber, the shift to cannabinoids, and the seeds. So we know that when we go to scale to 15,000 acres per facility, we know exactly how many products within reason it’s an agricultural crop or something like that. But within reason, we’ve got a very robust commercial model and an operational model around those facilities.
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked a question: Talk to me about your blocks that you mentioned.
Jamie Bartley said, so we’re working on hempcrete scale production in the UK FinTech blocks, which allows it and doing it at the right scale allows it to go into both mainstream new build, but also the retrofit market. So in the UK, it is around 2424 and a half million homes that need retrofit energy efficiency measures to achieve the next 2050 climate targets. And to do that, obviously, we need scale production of insulation for instance, but the insulation products alternatives, as Mark from Halifax was discussing, recently reviewed the embodied energy in the alternatives like glass fiber or rockwork. Huge compared to the negative carbon is associated with cultivation of hemp fiber. So then when you look up the carbon that in hemp fibers, about 1.67 kilograms of embodied carbon per kilogram of hemp fiber, when you lock that up into retrofitting the building using insulation, you’re not only locking that carbon up after the carbon cycle for the lifespan of the building, but you’re also reducing the operational carbon requirements or energy requirements in that building too. So you have a double net effect on removing carbon from the atmosphere. So that’s one benefit but the ability of utilizing hemp products to do that and the blog specifically, if we look at sustainable wood fiber insulation as an alternative, that’s what the government in the UK are currently pushing for. If we did just 10% of the UK annual insulation usage unit using sustainable wood fiber from UK forest, we would have to cut down 50% of the UK forests in the first year. If we do another 10% of the annual installation usage, we cut down the other 50% of the UK forests, we’ve got to wait 28 years for that biomass volume to grow again. Whereas hemp will produce four times the biomass at forestry will inform on the growth cycle. You can grow it in the crop rotation in the UK, we’ve got 4.7 million arable acres of land in the UK. So it’s absolutely scalable. We only need to go 150,000 acres ahead to get that 10% of the UK is annual installation, which is our current plan to have a buyer construct model that we’re currently funding. But equally, if we really wanted to go to 100%, we’ve got 1.5 million acres of land there that potentially could be in a crop rotation. And then when you look at the layer benefits to improving food security by falling crop yields, have we increasing by 16 to 18% reduction in soil compaction, improve attenuation, capacity, fire diversity, net gain all of those lead benefits and agricultural perspective and you localize you localizing the economy on a decentralized basis. So you’re not holding raw materials all over the place. So that’s really our model around trying to utilize hemp in retrofit, because it’s such a sector that’s got a large growth potential. The government in the UK is spending 2 billion pounds Yeah, just in one part of the retrofit sector, and that is going to be further spending so it’s certainly a well funded sector because they know the impact it can have on ultimately decarbonizing the whole economy as such.
- The Investing Side
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked a question:So we hear all the time right it’s it’s hard to scale this because dollar for dollar it’s been more expensive we’re looking at insulation made with fiberglass or plastics or whatever. And then hemp is not as dot when you put it right next to each other. Hemp is more expensive. When you’re having the conversations, especially being on the investment side. Also, what are you seeing coming on the investment side to take into consideration the double decarbonization opportunity that we have in sequestering that what they’re sequestering, avoiding and whatever other piece?
Jamie Bartley said, I mean, I think from an investment point of view, it’s to a certain degree, yes. The investments needed as infrastructure. That’s the big barrier
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, What is Investment?
Jamie Bartley replied, I think, well, we’re seeking investment at the moment. So I’m trying, I’m trying to understand that in as much detail as possible. What I would say is that the legislation will drive some of the investment to so from a UK perspective, there’s legislation coming in, these developers have to account for the body and the operational carbon of buildings, suddenly, then when you’ve not just when you’re looking at both of those metrics that really cements hemp as a very, very viable product because of the reasons I touched on a minute ago. So that legislation will actually then force the investments to come in because the developers will have to have those alternative products available to them. And that’s when suddenly you glass fiber, or your alternate products in the market become less financially viable to a developer because of the implications they have on their overall development accounting for carbon and greenhouse gas emissions.
- 10% Current Need for 20 50 Standard Wipes 50% of UK Forest
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, Shane just asked again, just to clarify that 10% of the current need for the 20-50 standard would wipe out 50% of the UK forest.
Jamie Bartley replied and said, if we were to go with what the UK government is currently suggesting we do for a sustainable source of insulation, which is they suggest we use wood fiber insulation, if we were to base that just on UK forestry obviously with the trying to remove the need to cut down forestry globally to supply supply chains of cop 26. So we’ve agreed we’ve admitted we’ve signed up to that and we lead that as the UK Government. So let’s say we’ve got to then look at UK supplied wood fiber. Yes, 10% of the UK annual installation, just just one year’s installation with 50% of the UK forest.
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented and said, Well, that just goes to show you know if then even if it is pulled from another forest, the fact that that impacts it would impact us that much and that hemp is a solution, right? Hemp is a resource.
Jamie Bartley replied, again, when you look at it compared to in UK perspective, oilseed rape is the general crop that’s in a crop rotation if you call it the third property like in a rotation, or break crop, and hemp works very well in a crop rotation in the UK and placement of all seed right? We get a tactile seed right and get attacked by flea beetles very badly. And since one of the pesticides nicotine was banned in Europe and the UK a few years ago, that’s had a massive impact. So if we replace oilseed rape with hemp in the UK, not only can we take all the products you get from oilseed rape, actually far higher yield, you get a massive higher impact and carbon sequestration, but also having co2 oilseed crop that increases biodiversity that we can grow in the UK. So it increases biodiversity as well. It’s a great late season source of pollen for our pollinators, the bee populations. So again, it’s all these layered benefits that actually then improve our food productivity and crop productivity across the other crops as well. just to start this point there and opportunity. It’s an opportunity for investors because of the potential solutions that you can really provide. And, I mean, we’re just talking about one small cut. I mean, not one personal product section because construction is an enormous sector that we can really benefit from. But it’s what you’re absolutely Mandy we’re looking at. We’ve done a lot of r&d work with growing Got products to market round, and plastics, rounds, green hydrogen production, bio ethanol production, these are all very, very viable. And for the crop, they all need large capital investment into the infrastructure to allow it to scale at the right, commercially viable point.
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked another question, Okay, so going back to the kind of a question I didn’t ask very well before, but on the investment side, right, are we starting to see a shift? And I guess, this goes out to everyone, right? Are we really starting to see a shift where investment capital is starting to look at the whole picture of the power of sustainability that’s attached to hemp?
Jamie Bartley said, I think there’s a lot more ESG focus from investments and from high street banks. I mean, there’s a lot of ESG funds that are really sort of being put together now to focus on where they can have that impact investment. So I think they are really turning the corner and starting to look at Green Tech and agri tech type solutions. I mean, ultimately, we need solutions with lots of different sectors to achieve the impact we need to climate crises and, and greenhouse gas emissions. But I do think that the focus on what agriculture can get, and I mean, his sort of his great, great example of how much impact we can just have from soil. I mean, we can literally solve our decarbonisation problems globally, if we really focus on how we manage our soil, as well as to reduce emissions and stop those type one and type two emissions if we won’t work through emissions. But it’s really about actually just managing the natural, the environmental and ecosystems we have, and ensuring that those are as optimized as possible. And again, we very much advocate regenerative farming systems and that living soil, look at the micro bio relaxivity, look at the fungal activity, look at the protozoa. If we can get those rights, suddenly then you’re up to about 32 tonnes per hectare of carbon sequestered from them. And again, you start then taking that per hectare globally of the potential 30 tons. you farm for a zero till regenerative method with a very optimized living active soil, and you and equally validate that those items I mentioned there, the protozoa, the microbial activity and the fungal activity, if you validate those, along with the organic carbon, inorganic carbon within the soil, and the above ground biomass, the carbon was question into there, Europe’s around 30 tonnes per hectare. I mean, at least 60% of its in the soil, sequesters, and only 40% of the carbon then remains in the bio above ground biomass.
- Carbon being attached to Hemp
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, I want to dive into this more I got I would love this is a topic that carbon being attached to hemp, you know, that carbon footprint that hemp brings is very, very powerful in a conversation, but it’s something that I think is still so misunderstood. So I don’t know if you want to dive into it, I’d love to, I’d love to learn more. I’d love to understand who’s certifying those credits. How are farmers? How do farmers get involved in that? Where do they go to find contracts on the carbon?
Jamie Bartley replied and said, I think you’re it’s a very pertinent question, because there’s lots there’s lots of, if you like, so called validation bodies, there’s some of the more well known ones. But what I would say, probably more low carbon credits have been traded on there has been double, treble trading credits, and it’s not very transparent. That is, I mean, I’ve worked on working with various different people who are developing, ultimately solutions to do exactly what you just said, their mandate says, How do you validate? And how do you find the market for those credits? So I think the heart, the more the validation and the mod, the third party validation that’s done, and then transparency of data, so blockchain enabled data so it can then be changed and fudged. That will then drive the higher value of carbon credits. So one of the some of the guys we’re working with, basically called the UK soil carbon code. And it’s really looking at how we actually accurately validate the soil carbon content. So look at the baseline, then you’ve got practices around tillage practices, do use organic fertilizers, composite, these, etc, moving away from from you conventional chemical fertilizers and additives and then also looking at what the attenuation capacity of that soil is, what the microbial and fungal and mycorrhizal activities and that’s done through literally taking soil samples that come in through a microscope. And, and that way you can really then validate the activity of the carbon chain within those elements. You can send a soil sample to a lab which can accurately look at the organic and inorganic carbon content. Once you understand all of that, then you can start combining it with geospatial data. Above ground biomass yield data, you can easily run a lab data on hemp straw, it’s around 40% Carbon generally, but then that relates to around three tonnes of atmospheric carbon dioxide. When you have 42% of organic code, sorry. But yeah, organic carbon within the biomass. So those are the sorts of levels of metrics that you need to be assessing, to then really look at potentially 100 150 pound a tonne for carbon credit, because of all that validation, right the way down. But then if you start looking at, wow, if I do all of that validation and assessment, that data, yes, there’s a cost associated, but if I’m getting 100 pound a ton, 33 tonnes a hectare? Well, that soon starts changing.
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented and said, that’s what that really drives interest. What about, though certifying? I’ve understood there’s a lot of questions in certifying that credit, especially for those that are already doing regenerative practices, right, how are they getting paid? And then how do we secure long term say that the complex credit ends up in a home that that home isn’t destroyed or broken up or taken down in three years? And that credit is being traded then on a futures agreement? Like what does that look like? You think?
Jamie Bartley said, I think the way we’re looking at that is the we’re going to take some, we’re going to leave the soil carbon for farmers, and we’re going to take the above ground carbon into our products. So fruit blockchain enabled traceability will go from the seeds, where we fill in this in the soil, including any emissions for any proof preparation works if there is any small amount of Tillys needed, or if there’s none at all, ideally, direct drill, but those emissions will get accounted for to, and then every emission will get counted right the way through to the point of harvest of the biomass, and then again, through the lifecycle analysis of the product production. So through the gold station through the nonwoven installation production with employees block production, all emissions get accounted for through those stages, what we do is we first facilities get a 10.5 megawatt renewable biomass power station on site. So we get the benefit of renewable power into the facility, processing power in the process in which helps has been ice like analysis. And then ultimately, what you end up with is your role of installation or in your block, there is x amount of carbon in bodies that you can truly say is in there. Now that goes to come up with the best developer goes to the end user, because they have to account for the carbon in their construction. So if they can value that all the way through accurately, they can come in and take that in there. And then in essence, that carbon then is locked up, there is variances around the cat five of building all of those types of things. So the way the accounting systems that we’re using, taken into account a 20% is always left over as like a reserve. So whatever the 32 times by exercising number 20% of that will never get traded or utilized by the farm as a credit or utilized in the product to the credit. So you have in essence a risk buffer that allows for them, those types of scenarios to potentially are out of your control, but could theoretically happen down the line albeit a less likely to happen than to build in having this operational lifespan of 30 years and then being deconstructed. We want to move longer term to panel systems that actually have say a tree building lifespan use right so you can deconstruct those panels from the building, they just go back on to in essence a database. They’ve got structural performance data that shows that are suitable for using x y Zed type of building or location and then they can go back into building without actually that traditional demolition recycling type. repurchases cycle again, initial lot of carbon that’s hard.
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, for me to fathom because even in my lifetime I watched trailers go from no heavy duty long lasting trailers to within the first time you use them door panels are falling off and things are so poorly made. They’re just made. Yeah. So it’s interesting. And it’s not just the construction industry, right. The auto industry is moving to the same business model. We’re looking for that which again, just poses more opportunity for him, right. Absolutely. Okay, I have to give a shout out really quick. There’s lots of people chiming in with questions. Brian is not one sob I see you’re on Darrell. If you guys are not subscribed, please go and subscribe to our YouTube channel and share it we’re really close to hitting some opportunities. With YouTube, and so we’re just really pushing out there for both watched hours. So I always tell people, not only are we on YouTube, but also on anchor and Google podcast as well but go in and let them play let these videos play. There’s a lot of little nuggets in these that I wasn’t anticipating going down the carbon discussion as much. So I’m really excited about this brand.
Question: Do you think hemp as a feedstock to slow paralysis would be a good way to make sin gas liquid biofuels and biochar?
Jamie Bartley said, we’ve done some research recently, actually, we did a trial run with a process unit over here. I mean, if you want to reach out afterwards and if you want to in more detail, I’ll happily share the results with you. But certainly from a source of char, it makes a very good char. And there’s also potential for fibers if you char it at the right temperatures and pressures, and you can actually produce very viable carbonized fibers again, as a replacement for carbon fiber, other than obviously, the natural fibers that can be utilized by composites. So I do think from a sin gas perspective, yes. What I would say to that point, as well as having worked in the waste sector for a lot with this is actually probably three more viable sources of waste streams that we could be focusing on for paralysis at the moment and utilizing the biomass feedstock from hemp to go into various different more viable, net beneficial products with regards to decarbonisation. But I do you think, from waste fraction type output, and also what we’re looking to do, as well as medical cannabis production facilities, obviously, they have more biomass waste, in essence, which we see as a value. So I actually see products as units tacked on to medical production facilities, to decarbonize their production and utilize the waste into there for the fuels and then Charles to go into agricultural land to lock up carbon as well. So I do think absolutely, I think there’s a place for hemp better than in biochar.
- How To Find Jamie Bartley
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked Jamie and said, How do people reach you? If somebody wants to get in touch? How do they find you?
Jamie Bartley replied and said, so reach out through the website. If you email the contact details, like why is my email address anyone’s welcome female directors Jamie@unite.co.uk? And also on LinkedIn as well, feel free to connect me on LinkedIn.
- Jamie Bartley’s Background
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked Jamie, what’s your background? How’d you do a lot of things like everything you’re saying there’s topics I want to dive into more like I really want to get into some of the construction and building materials.
Jamie Bartley said, It’s quite diverse. I mean, I started off playing professional rugby when I was smashed in my shoulder when I was 18. So that was the end of that. Then I went into running pubs and restaurants for a couple of years, then moved to France, lived out there in the Alps, and ran the ski resorts for a couple of years, and then moved back to the UK and got involved in construction, which is really my initial journey. And I think it was all around for me, it’s always been around the environment. I mean, I’ve got a passion for the environment. I love the mountains so that I can see the impact global warming is having on the grasses I’ve been snowboarding on for years, that kind of thing. So I’m quite passionate about the impact. And, and again, I know that scale of, I suppose I’ve never been involved with any scaling means just variables and metrics. And as long as you accurately write the front end, it doesn’t matter what the scale to numbers is. That’s the back end if you like it’s more about getting those, those front end bits, right. And I could see that actually, we can do so much. We just got to get on with doing it. There’s a lot that sits there and goes, we can do this, we can do that. Well, let’s do it. And frustrating is my point. And shoot is the only barrier I come up against every time is okay, but we need x capital. And we’ve been a diverse group of businesses, we can only self generate. As I mentioned, we spend a lot of money out there generating profit for other businesses. But we now at the point, we’ve got to really accelerate this and to accelerate it leads the multi million pound funds to then unlock the capital in the infrastructure. I mean, the likes of Jeff Wade, and then replanted, etc. That is great, that’s great that those funds are starting to focus on industrial hemp. And I do like that there’s a lot of focus, I suppose from different sectors that initially probably didn’t really look at industrial hemp as a solution. Now we’ll go and we’ll actually look at the scale opportunity with it because it really has that scale potential globally, and especially on some of the sub Saharan African projects that we’re looking at. I mean, maybe if we just touch on one of those actually, which is, again, it’s again, it’s all about scale and impact and benefit for us. So we’re working with a chap called Ken Danny’s who was awarded an OBE and the UK from the Queen owns this early this year. Ken’s great Ken’s got real passion about impact in he worked very closely in people’s SUTA which is a sub Saharan African country. It’s one of the smallest country regions in Africa and was also one of the poorest countries in Africa. So very high poverty levels. And I mean, across Sub Saharan Africa, one in three people still globally in fact, one in three people still cook over open with bias. So the standard there is that in Germany seven, eight hours a day, over the woods boys staring pots putting wood on the fire breathing in smoke. And the biggest killer of under five year old children globally, is smoke inhalation. So because they’re strapped to the parents, the mother’s mother’s generally but strapped to the parents were they breathing in the smoke. So Ken developed his basis called Nico Nico cook bag. And we’ve collaborated with Ken to make this so we can do it under the sun out of him. So hemp fiber insulation materials, and hemp called the rope basically. And if you imagine a tea cozy, in essence is the big insulated bag, that you put the floor inside, she put the pot on the logs for about an hour, eat the pot up, so it’s full temperature, put it in his bag, and then that’s it, you can leave it and it’s equivalent for cooking for eight hours. The impact that can then have on South human life, so the women get seven hours a day back where they can go and use it to further their knowledge like a crock pot. So you see each for each bag will provide 2773 hours a year of last time for women back, spending their families developing their own benefits for their own social impact, startup jobs, startup, all sorts of different potential impacts, they can have that time alone. And then the health benefit of not being in the smoke impacts the children not dying. And that’s 2773 hours worth of not burning timber per year per bag, right. And we can do this from the waste, the waste straw from the licensed producers growing medical cannabis in South Africa in the suitors. So those are the sorts of projects as well. We’re very small scale, small scale school education. So you can scale it across the 1.3 billion people that we can impact with it across Africa. But think how much long term impact and benefit those types of projects can have. And I think that that’s really about what we want, we want to have the impact on the large scale industrial processes, but we want to have that social impact on those projects. That is really where our hearts are as well.
- Affect the Dollar
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented, And we can do that. That’s what’s so cool. This right here is really what fuels my fire, like what keeps me going and keeps the grit in the game are people like you that connect the dots for me like I had no idea. What’s the plot of our supply chain looks like, I’m in Utah, I’m privileged, you know, I live in Utah, I’m, I have had a good life. And I’m lucky there. But I’ve been very disconnected about where my food comes about how cost affects the people that are sewing in manufacturing or clothing. And hemp has brought that to light and just a situation just like what you just talked about, and how hemp plays a role in a majorly impactful social scenario, as well as the economic development. And yeah, it’s, it’s amazing. This is what I love about it. And it’s, it’s cool. And this is where I would think that investment really is paying closer attention, right. But it still comes down to that dollar. And so being able to communicate all of these benefits that then become a better impact, right? How does it affect their dollar?
Jamie Bartley said, And that’s it. And I think it’s almost all different investors, it’s horses for courses, you’ve got investors that are going to be very interested in your scale production of construction materials, and rolling that out on a large scale, making profit at doing it. But I think this is probably a different subset of investors that are interested in the project such as the Eco cook bag in the city, which actually can be a far lower value investment but higher by our by far higher value of impact. Because of the metrics needed, I mean, in an ideal world, yes, we go and spend 4 million, 5 million on a decortication facility and then we can scale the production of the bags very quickly. So you can then really have that impact across a large population. If not, you’re going to go and spend 5000 on a small hand fed decortication unit and enable the people to really start scaling it.
- US Needs to Scale
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, So what do you think the US needs to scale? You know, what are some of those needs?
Jamie Bartley said, I think the missing link everywhere is to qualification. It’s largely self cultivation. And it needs to be at the right scales. I mean, if you’re doing sort of an hour, an hour and things like that, you need to have a few of them. Because I do think from all of the, the validation of different sort of models and scale models and projects that were involved in, only becomes viable for certainly for the mass use markets, if you get the gun at the right scale, otherwise, your price points on your fiber in your shed don’t allow it to then go into those those sort of mass use markets like construction, etc. So I think it’s about getting that scale point, right to the primary processing, and decentralized as well. I mean, it’s, if you’re gonna have mega factories, or mega Corp skaters that are trying to serve as 1000s and 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of hectares, and you’ve got a whole app 1000s of hectares of massive distances, on vehicles, emitting loads of emissions and undoing all the carbon that you’ve just done. So it needs to be done on a decentralized basis, not on a mega factory basis, certainly for primary processing. And if I’m honest, I believe you struggle to make it work on a mega factory basis, even on secondary, secondary processing, and depending on which products you are going into.
- Carbon Credits
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, Back to carbon credits. Darryl has a really good question. And I was kind of curious, also on scale. So after DeRose’s question, I’d like to go back to what is that reasonable scale, you think for acreage as well? Is there a concern with agricultural carbon credits, getting a lower rating than industrial commercial credits?
Jamie Bartley said, I think any credit is down to the validation of that credit. So if if you can, if you’ve got someone that’s doing third party validation, if you can show you working to an ISO methodology, if you’ve got a accredited laboratory, and ISO accredited laboratory and take in your soil analytics, all of those types of things, I think, actually add the price of a agricultural credit if you’d like. And I think also as well as people sort of talk around carbon credits and just documenting the carbon bytes, you see it as almost, when I say I haven’t credit because you can have a carbon, but the kind of biodiversity, you have the sulfate removal. So there’s actual value to all of those benefits, certainly from different markets that are emerging now. We’re actually if you can validate those aspects to and roll them all into one and Pico credit. If you like that, then we have a really, really high value because you’ve got those multiple layers in there for those different sorts of tokenomics, so to speak. And I do think having it blockchain enabled is gonna be quite key to transparency, and therefore the validity as well.
Mandi Lynn Kerr asked a question: Are the majority of carbon credits being traded in the private market versus on voluntary carbon markets?
Jamie Bartley said, I think is the main space that people trade in, certainly have carbon credits at the moment. I mean, from a carbon emissions point of view, there is a UK carbon government carbon emissions platform that is more geared towards industrial sellers. And offsetting is not really about reduction. But I think as things move away from greenwashing, and more around actually, removal from all groups of emissions, I think, again, that really cements those, those eco credits with the biodiversity and the various elements in alongside the carbon.
- Decortication as the Key Thing
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, so we talked about decortication as being a key thing. And I saw Shane just brought up a great comment about seeds, especially seeds in the US, right? When we look at scale, something, you know, especially here, we focus so much on cannabinoid production, there’s tons of feminized seeds. But yeah, what does that look like? And when I look at scalability, this need for scalable data and understanding what genetics are going where, what’s your opinion there?
Jamie Bartley said, seed is something that people do overlook when they start talking about scale. You need to have seed production, you need volumes of it, ultimately, I mean, you can see it scalable, but it still needs someone doing it. And you can’t just have everyone bringing up the suppliers or distributors we need. We’ve got our facility online now. And we want to do 10,000 acres 5000 acres this year, because they won’t have it. You’ve got to talk almost 18 months in advance. Do you see suppliers to ensure that they’re replicating that current season to the volumes that you’re then going to be ordering often? So I mean, I think it’s about supply chain relationships. We I mean, we worked with quite a few of the European seed suppliers that do have scale availability, but we and they both know that as soon as we close that investment for the construction facilities, each of those circa 22 million investment. Each of those needs 15,000 acres a year. We’re feedstock, and we’re looking for tenants around the UK and Ireland. So that, again, is all about making sure we’ve got the right level of seat available. But we’re also working on one of our partners, is a global specialist in seed multiplication and, and crop breeding. So we’re working with a partner to ensure that not just the seat is available for our needs, but also the rest of the sector’s needs. I mean, we sit on the, on the executive board of the cannabis industry council in the UK and, and head up the subgroup. So I work with a lot of the licensed producers and, and cultivators in the UK and Rob point of view, there’s such a massive potential for the sector, and there’s room for everyone in it. So it’s all about collaborative work in data sharing and trying to enable everyone to make a successful business within the sector, because that ultimately grows the whole sector and is established to get longer term federal benefits.
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented and said, But being in Utah and not being an agriculture and not being as exposed to the global cannabis market as you have, I’m curious what more people like me may be missing, or what we should really be focusing on as we’re looking to scale in the US. Right, you said decortication. But like, what, what are some key things we may not be, you know, talking about?
Jamie Bartley replied, I think probably harvest infrastructure as well. Dependent on and this is, again, it’s down to n juices. I mean, ultimately, it’s all about Oh God use you’ve got to maximize every different component you can from that plan, whether it be via construction, but the more elements you can take off, the better. So biomass, I mean, ideally, it’s a double cut, combined, you can take the see the biomass, separate those two fractions, you got biomass for bulk extraction for cannabinoids, or terpenoids, you’ve got your you see there from Sea oil, protein powder, I think, I think it’ll be a big focus on protein powder, as people really try and move away from soy because of the deforestation, the impacts it has on the biodiversity impacts therefore, so then I think there’ll be more of a drive towards hemp protein as well, from a from a mainstream food producers point of view. So I think that infrastructure needs planning. Ultimately, the guys who make the combines have to make the combines they’ve only got a finite capacity for production of those combines, the farmers need to find that million euros to go and buy them. So that all needs factoring into from a finance perspective. So I think it’s about ensuring that the right infrastructure is in place before putting the crop in the ground. So that’s that, that’s got to be decortication. And yeah, harvesting, and just secondary infrastructure, because there’s no point chasing off and going to gates in a few 1000 hectares of fiber and shiv or five and hertz, Eric Schmidt Yeah, much of the clarify that for those who unless we call, we call herd sheep in the UK. So we should have started with that at the beginning, in case it wasn’t clear, but she’s pulling the cord gating, 1000s and 1000s of tons of fiber and Shiv unless you’ve got secondary infrastructure available to put those into products, because someone’s gonna buy that. And that’s really why we’re looking at vertical integration of all our facilities. So you’ve got that guaranteed production capacity at the right size, you need availability that you need. And then you can go to end users and promise X amount of supply contracts for this or that product. Because if you’re going to start talking to big multinational house builders and the likes about scale production, you’re going to be in pretty painful contracts if you don’t supply that product, because that’s going to impact on them building all those houses that they want to build. So you’ve got to have that, that control. And that’s something that I think you’ve either got to work on a very cooperative basis with supply chain partners, or all of those elements that are all brought into this venture. And I’m really sort of reading from the same page, or you need to take the other view, getting the supply chain internally, but then you need the capital to deploy that infrastructure.
Mandi Lynn Kerr said I’m really when we look at scalability and big agriculture, they’re controlling, no, and then they’re developing the equipment to hit the genetics so that it processes exactly our harvest exactly the way they want.
Jamie Bartley said With a lot of work on genetics, which, again, it’s gonna be a longer term one, but it’s all about optimizing the genetics so you minimize your primary and secondary processing. So we optimized genetics. It’s one that’s been developed recently in the UK, which has got a very high lake of seeds for like acid content, and it’s MCT oil. And what that basically means is MCT oil is pretty unstable if we’re honest. Normally, it oxygenates quite a bit, and therefore is not always that viable for biodiesel production of biofuels. But if you’ve got high oleic acid content that removes the oxidation it loses instability issues, and then you can make a very viable by-bye diesel from it. Also for food, mainstream food production that Eric acid is, is a constituent in mainstream food production, but it is quite beneficial and sought after. So and that was done through seven years of crossing genetics, breeding to develop a genetic that is specifically focused on that production. I see a lot of work around optimizing genetics, so they’ve got a lesser lignin than lignin level. So then the colonization phase of treatment and processes is far reduced, which reduces the energy requirements and costs to the colonization. So I actually see some not necessarily GMO and genetically modified but just for inbreeding traits of different different cultivars to then benefit the specific end users that you’re targeting those cultivars. I mean, we’ve done as I said, at the end, we’ve done five cultivars, 11, seed densities, seed density alone has a massive impact on our crop will form and its height. And then we’ve had the same cultivar Santika 77, which would be about 2.2 2.3 meters. In one field, where we had quite a Lucy density, go up to 80 kilos per hectare of seed, and we were pushing in four meters, the majority of the field. So those sorts of impacts can have a huge impact. And again, if you’re chasing a primary focus on shave or fiber, both the densities are going to impact on how much of each you get. So I think it’s about understanding the genetics and, and optimizing them moving forward.
- Genetic Streating and to Grow
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, I think a lot of times when we pop up or burst the bubble when we talk about scale, and people are getting excited and they want to come in and we’re like, Well, wait, we don’t know what genetic streaming and to grow, let alone scale there. And yeah, so it’s quite the process. Bill, you’ve got a great question here. Energy retrofits use a blow blown in cellulose insulation no bats to maximize performance Are you or anyone making blown in cellulose insulation.
Jamie Bartley said, is something isn’t although as far as I’m aware, isn’t on the market currently commercially available. It is a product that we’re looking at r&d at the moment with one of the universities that we work with closely to where we’re looking at ultimately what fractions of this ship need to be treated in how we can cost effectively tricked out to make them fire resistant enough to then be blown into the cavities. So yeah, I think there is an option moving forward with that it’s not something that’s commercially a market better desirable yet.
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented and said, So that would be just like a spray hemp insulation when you say the cellulose insulation.
Jamie Bartley said so if you mentioned the sort of your essence you can, you’ve got cellulose fiber in the hemp shed it’s a high cellulose fiber product. So it’s going to into the right fraction where you can blow it without bridging because if you imagine it getting blown into a cavity The danger with blown cavity insulation is you don’t if it bridges itself, then you don’t actually fill up the wall you don’t insulate properly you need cultivation, etc. So, so that the key parameters of blown insulation, they use beads in essence, small beads, normally, polystyrene bead, if you imagine that type of product, because of that reason, it will blow and if it is bridged at all it basically will fall around itself and and fill in the space. So you get full but there have been a lot of problems. Cavity insulation installed in the UK retrofit where it’s now getting removed because of those problems with insulated installations. So yes, I think it is a product that will come to market but not one that we’ve currently got commercially available.
- What Should Investors and People in Space Should Paying Attention To
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, Okay, if I’m a processor look going out and I you know, we just talked about the core education facilities, what are some things that investors or people in this space should be paying attention to, to determine whether or not their equipment meets and use specs or will be a viable piece of equipment?
Jamie Bartley said, I’m actually just writing a spec at the moment for our induced specifications, to then make sure that the primary processing infrastructure is going to get the inspectors required because it is pretty specific. For instance, we take them three blocks to him three blocks need to be specified by the sheriff to have any dust in there, there’s quite a few parameters. And if you don’t achieve those with the chef, then you’re not going to be able to make the structural structural blocks to the performance blocks and you need to and therefore, you should function and use products. Now that comes down to having the right either hammer mill or personal bale openers initially, but then you’ve got your prime and so is it a hammer mill is it going to be a roller set of rollers for instance on the primary qualification process, and then looking at Have you got the right amount of cones and step cleaners in place to give you the right cleanliness of fiber depending on if you’re gonna go into you’re gonna go to a non woven installation you probably need a slightly less percentage cleanliness of fiber compared to if you want to go to a higher value composite for instance, product, our textile, so So it’s about It is some of its going to be about understanding of end uses before you specify your equipment. And then ensuring with your technology suppliers, that they can achieve X, Y and Zed parameters on those components that you need to go into secondary process, whatever that might be. So it is really understandable. And I suppose, when we get involved in any new project, I will say, we will start at the end. Because if you don’t start at the end and work out exactly what product we want to go into, every time we change one of those products, we have to undo all the technologies and the and the volumes, and basically have to redo the whole model. Whereas actually, if we start, if we start at the end, we can go right, these are the products therefore, we know we need to achieve this specification. At that point, we achieve this specification, but the post qualification phase, and therefore its course Keishon needs to be this. And the throughput absorbed needs to be this, this moisture content, those are the sorts of scenarios and even reffing as well, if you’ve got a if you’ve got an overrated straw, that will have a negative impact on a hempcrete block, because the mold in there will interact with the lime binders. So it’s those types of issues.
Mandi Lynn Kerr commented and said, We’re doing exactly the opposite of what we want when we’re putting mold back in walls.
Jamie Bartley said, I know it was even even a even a pre even it’s sort of a fresher, less erected straw, so a very bright, white light straw, even that’s problematic, because you’ve got too high sugar content, which again will affect the sugar farm, and it’s still in there, and you haven’t had the natural microbial breakdown or the lignin, and the semi lignin. So all of those types of impacts feed into it as well. So I mean, as much as I do think it’s a very robust crop, you still have to be quite specific with what you do with it. And that all comes down to having the right specifications, technologies, and you to understand your juices. If you change your juices, you could find you can’t achieve that with the specification equipment you’ve got in place.
- The Opportunity
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, just to speak to this, when we talked about how broad the opportunity is, and how narrow really the scope needs to be when we talk about specs, or standards, right and, and rubbish. For example, with rubbish equipment, he said, when he came in and first started to develop all this different equipment, you know, somebody would say, Well, I’m looking for XYZ, say I’m looking for a piece of equipment that cuts a crop, it’s nine feet tall, or 12 feet tall, you know, and so he makes his equipment drops his equipment down to cut to six feet tall, just in case it doesn’t get that tall, right, and then come to find out the crop didn’t even get to six feet tall. And now you can use the equipment. And that’s a perfect example of capital that’s needed in this r&d phase. You know, and that’s one piece of it. That’s one piece of harvesting equipment and understanding, you know, how impacted the even the equipment is by, you know, the harvest and the genetics and where it’s grown, and so forth. So, I know that’s very basic for a lot of us and a lot of us that are listening. It’s not It’s amazing to me, even in the cannabis space, when I start to talk about the opportunities about building materials and bio composites and plastics and proteins and sugars and all of the goods and you hear people you know, that are in in the spacing Wait, what you can do what with this crap.
- How can GHA Support?
Mandi Lynn asked a question and said, So I’m excited. What is it? For those of you that are listening? We have a couple of minutes left, but out to our audience, Jamie, how do we support you, what is it you’re looking for, that someone in our audience may have a connection or be able to connect you to?
Jamie Bartley said, we’re very open to collaboration and partnership in different projects. We’ve got multiple different ventures running with different people at different stages of development. What I mean, one of our big needs at the moment is capital investment. We’re looking at both investment into Greg level, and then also partners for investment into various different specific projects around scale production facilities and infrastructure. So if there’s anyone interested in conversations around that, certainly we’d be, we’d be keen to engage and I can go into a lot more detail. And I think other than that, I think if there was anything that people felt we might be able to assist them with, very keen to, to offer that assistance and information, so feel free to reach out and, and I hope everyone carries on supporting it with all the great work.
XIV. Biological Stem Fractionalization as an Alternative
Mandi Lynn Kerr said, Have you looked into the biological stem fractionalization as an alternative to mechanical decortication?
Jamie Bartley said, it’s something I haven’t gone into enormous detail. I think it is something that would be viable for certain end uses. Again, you’re sort of the metrics of if you’re going to be doing that in the fields, you need to have quite specific controlled environmental conditions and settings in the UK perspective on the harvest and heading to the back end of the year. It often rains quite a lot and that could go See impacts on the sort of impacts on Britain, but it also could impact on any sort of biological process, then to take that to an internal sort of industrialized process at the scale was would need to go into the markets, I think, would be interesting to look at. I don’t know how it would stack up compared to mechanization. processing. So again, I mean, if there was an interest that they’re happy to have a conversation offline and discuss it a little bit further and see if we can get some of the mod revival. We are working with people around carbon credits and an app for farmers to do that. It’s one of the more developed systems, it’s operational, they book up, farmers getting paid. So again, if people were interested specifically around how they can look at collating carbon credits from their farming practices, again, feel free to reach out to me, mineral against jamie.co. UK. And I’m happy to discuss that further as well.